I think there may be a difference between what Lasimachus and Melesias want for their children as far as character and what Socrates’s notion of character. They want their children to be successful in the popular sense, whereas Socrates is not interested in material success. The Sophists can teach how to get ahead, but is that true character?
Tommy, perhaps there is a difference, but that's not the sense I get from the dialogue. It sounds to me like Lasimachus and Melesias want their sons to be virtuous, not successful. If they wanted the latter, you are right, they should go to a Sophist!
When we pull the curtain back and look closely at ourselves and our experience of knowing and not knowing it becomes clear especially with the virtues such as courage, justice and love that we can’t really make any true claims about our understanding and possession of these virtues.
One of the main reasons of our lack of ability to claim them as attributes is due to the organic unfolding of there arising i.e.; they are situational and are available in the moments that they are needed due to the requirements of the circumstances.
In other words, they come alive inside us and are expressed appropriately as an action of our being due to the causes and conditions that are unfolding. Having an interest in virtue and living a life that has embraced arete is a prerequisite for the possibility of there expression plus the events and situations that come into our lives bring about the opportunity to practice this insight.
These virtues defy possession from anyone and come about due to the intuition and intentions of the individual as they are living their lives. Therefore, Socrates is not playing dumb by saying he is ignorant about how to teach them since in a sense they are like a germinating seed that needs the sunlight, rain ☔️ and the soil to sprout and cannot be commanded from the knowledge and definitions of what they are.
I think there may be a difference between what Lasimachus and Melesias want for their children as far as character and what Socrates’s notion of character. They want their children to be successful in the popular sense, whereas Socrates is not interested in material success. The Sophists can teach how to get ahead, but is that true character?
Tommy, perhaps there is a difference, but that's not the sense I get from the dialogue. It sounds to me like Lasimachus and Melesias want their sons to be virtuous, not successful. If they wanted the latter, you are right, they should go to a Sophist!
When we pull the curtain back and look closely at ourselves and our experience of knowing and not knowing it becomes clear especially with the virtues such as courage, justice and love that we can’t really make any true claims about our understanding and possession of these virtues.
One of the main reasons of our lack of ability to claim them as attributes is due to the organic unfolding of there arising i.e.; they are situational and are available in the moments that they are needed due to the requirements of the circumstances.
In other words, they come alive inside us and are expressed appropriately as an action of our being due to the causes and conditions that are unfolding. Having an interest in virtue and living a life that has embraced arete is a prerequisite for the possibility of there expression plus the events and situations that come into our lives bring about the opportunity to practice this insight.
These virtues defy possession from anyone and come about due to the intuition and intentions of the individual as they are living their lives. Therefore, Socrates is not playing dumb by saying he is ignorant about how to teach them since in a sense they are like a germinating seed that needs the sunlight, rain ☔️ and the soil to sprout and cannot be commanded from the knowledge and definitions of what they are.
Melville, absolutely, Socrates ain't playing dumb!