Interesting to see this from E because I think our whole modern civilization is based on public toilet attendant - in other words how to set up a system in which there are enough people who will do the job.
I wholly agree about the role ethics -- and I think there is probably more work to be done unpacking its history, including in among the Cynics. My own guess is that Socrates' talk of being a gadfly is an important forefather.
BTW, I loved your remark that Epictetus is not talking down to the slave; his only criticism is about the slave weighing things by externals. Indeed, I think that there are plenty of roles in which there is a version of holding the chamber pot, and it is reasonable to do so: parents looking after infants (i.e. diapers), nurses helping a patient who has trouble getting out of bed, or a proctologist discovering that the colonoscopy prep is insufficient. (Sorry to get scatological, but Epictetus' rawness is why I think real people living in the real world are continually drawn to him!)
Brian, indeed, Epictetus speaks to real people, including those holding chamber pots under a variety of circumstances.
I also interpret the chamber pot metaphorically: there are lots of situations where we are asked to do something demeaning for our integrity, and in those cases we need to decide at what price we sell it.
A beautiful reading of an important passage. To me, this passage perfectly captures the difference between Epictetus and Cicero (Panaetius) on roles. Cicero is a novus homo and speaks only to aristocratic roles while Epictetus, the ex-slave, gets down and dirty about the literal sh*t that some people have to face.
Brian, appreciated, especially coming from you! Yes, the contrast between the two approaches to role ethics is interesting. I also find it intriguing that more than one Stoic articulated the very concept of role ethics.
Interesting to see this from E because I think our whole modern civilization is based on public toilet attendant - in other words how to set up a system in which there are enough people who will do the job.
Yes, we moderns may not have slavery, but we have come up with functional substitutes...
I wholly agree about the role ethics -- and I think there is probably more work to be done unpacking its history, including in among the Cynics. My own guess is that Socrates' talk of being a gadfly is an important forefather.
BTW, I loved your remark that Epictetus is not talking down to the slave; his only criticism is about the slave weighing things by externals. Indeed, I think that there are plenty of roles in which there is a version of holding the chamber pot, and it is reasonable to do so: parents looking after infants (i.e. diapers), nurses helping a patient who has trouble getting out of bed, or a proctologist discovering that the colonoscopy prep is insufficient. (Sorry to get scatological, but Epictetus' rawness is why I think real people living in the real world are continually drawn to him!)
Brian, indeed, Epictetus speaks to real people, including those holding chamber pots under a variety of circumstances.
I also interpret the chamber pot metaphorically: there are lots of situations where we are asked to do something demeaning for our integrity, and in those cases we need to decide at what price we sell it.
Yes, I loved your discussion of the price at which we sell ourselves. Great stuff!
A beautiful reading of an important passage. To me, this passage perfectly captures the difference between Epictetus and Cicero (Panaetius) on roles. Cicero is a novus homo and speaks only to aristocratic roles while Epictetus, the ex-slave, gets down and dirty about the literal sh*t that some people have to face.
Brian, appreciated, especially coming from you! Yes, the contrast between the two approaches to role ethics is interesting. I also find it intriguing that more than one Stoic articulated the very concept of role ethics.