Thank you Massimo.... sometimes it's extremely challenging but the practice pays off..... Plus it helps me set a better example for my son when I drive him to school....
All in with Prof Massimo? Absolutely! Thank YOU, and Epictetus, for simplifying matters both great and small. Practical and humorous, i can utilize the fundamental Stoic principles which, when applied, can easily lift layers of mental mischief and congestion.
How does one know where the division is between what is in our control and what is not? What about gray areas and consequences? I have been living in a rent-stabilized apartment for 25 years. My landlord-tenant relationship has gone from amicable to hostile to “forced friendly cooperation.” Unfortunately, I became permanently disabled and the apartment leaks when a storm with wind blowing from the southeast hits. He knows and keeps repairing the interior and does not repair the cause of the problem--outside. I prefer an “open dialogue,” or diplomacy, if you will, because there are always problems all the time wherever you live. Yesterday he finished all interior repairs and it was yesterday morning where I was actually looking at the wind forecast due to the rain. We left it as he promised he will have a contractor look at it in September. But he promised in December and January he would do so in March, April, May, June, July, August and now September. A landlord’s mantra is to put off to tomorrow that which you don’t have to do today. I am reluctant to call the city because that is the nuclear option. He will be summoned with citations and be forced to repair. It will also cut all dialogue between us. He’ll be angry and it will be “hostile.” I’ve had and seen neighborhood hostile landlord-tenant relationships and they’re not for me. I called once because he ignored me and called me back angry. I withdrew the city inspector call. I prefer open dialogue at all costs. Why am going on here? Because analyzing this example is an sublime exercise for me on how to assess dichotomy of control. These are only words (by Epictetus). I don’t want to say I am living in fear, but I do live with anxiety. I know I cannot control when a storm will come again. And it will. My anxiety, however, is 100% in my control. So now with a perfect interior, in a wonderful city in a great neighborhood at a marketably low price, how do I enjoy each day until the southeast wind and rain storm? The wind analogy has reached from the mouth of Epictetus to my bedroom in NYC in 2023. 😊
Mike, thanks for the example, and very sorry to hear about your situation, though it sounds like you are handling it as well as one can reasonably expect.
For Epictetus the dichotomy is clear and sharp: the only things up to us, that is, for which we are responsible, are our judgments and consequent decisions to act or not to act. Nothing else.
To pick an example from your comment: it is your judgment that it is best, given the circumstances, not to call city inspection. Consequently, you decided not to act on that possibility. How your landlord will take your non-action, whether the situation will improve or not, is not up to you.
In general, whenever we think we are "influencing" a situation what that means is that our part, the influencing one, is the result of judgments and decisions we make. Those, summed to external factors and other people's judgments and decisions, yield the outcome.
Wow! 😳 You clarified and cut that perfectly--in so few lines--like with a knife!🔪 I think I know where I am now with your reply. I will accept my handling of the situation as the most reasonable way to have done so. The future may change that assessment, of course. Amazing how fast our changing thoughts affect our emotion. Thank you. 😊
I get the intellectual side of choosing ideas and ways of looking at things via free will, but where do natural emotions figure in? There are plenty of good reasons to be angry, sad etc that spur productive action. Is the idea to take action? Not dwell on things out of our control. I can't really imagine being okay with getting my head chopped off!
Jane, it's not a question of being okay with having your head chopped off. It's about accepting that sometimes, unfortunately, that's going to happen, and approaching your fate with equanimity instead of screaming and kicking.
Yes, emotions definitely have a role in Stoicism. They come in two flavors: healthy (love, joy, a sense of justice) and unhealthy (anger, fear, hatred).
As in modern cognitive behavioral therapy, the Stoics think that emotions have a cognitive component. If you are angry and I ask you why you'll be able to give me a reason. The Stoic then will work with that reason by, in a sense, arguing against the often unstated assumptions that underly your anger.
For instance: I'm angry because so-and-so said I'm stupid. Counter: why do you care what so-and-so says? Obviously his intention was to hurt. Why do you give him the power to hurt you? And so forth.
Jane, it definitely is very much like CBT! Sadness, like all emotions, is natural and I would say not problematic if it is temporary and not crippling. If it does get in the way of normal living and functioning then it's unhealthy and it needs to be subjected to Stoic therapy (or CBT).
Very practical.....thank you....
"I am condemned to death. Do I have to die moaning and groaning as well?"
I am condemned to drive on roads where many have little regard for the safety of other users. Must I do so bitching and cursing?
I am trying my best not to.....and slowly my attitude is changing......less bitching and more equinimity....thanks Epictetus....
Exactly, well done!
Thank you Massimo.... sometimes it's extremely challenging but the practice pays off..... Plus it helps me set a better example for my son when I drive him to school....
Being a good example to our children is an excellent motivator!
All in with Prof Massimo? Absolutely! Thank YOU, and Epictetus, for simplifying matters both great and small. Practical and humorous, i can utilize the fundamental Stoic principles which, when applied, can easily lift layers of mental mischief and congestion.
Thanks for the support, Lisa!
How does one know where the division is between what is in our control and what is not? What about gray areas and consequences? I have been living in a rent-stabilized apartment for 25 years. My landlord-tenant relationship has gone from amicable to hostile to “forced friendly cooperation.” Unfortunately, I became permanently disabled and the apartment leaks when a storm with wind blowing from the southeast hits. He knows and keeps repairing the interior and does not repair the cause of the problem--outside. I prefer an “open dialogue,” or diplomacy, if you will, because there are always problems all the time wherever you live. Yesterday he finished all interior repairs and it was yesterday morning where I was actually looking at the wind forecast due to the rain. We left it as he promised he will have a contractor look at it in September. But he promised in December and January he would do so in March, April, May, June, July, August and now September. A landlord’s mantra is to put off to tomorrow that which you don’t have to do today. I am reluctant to call the city because that is the nuclear option. He will be summoned with citations and be forced to repair. It will also cut all dialogue between us. He’ll be angry and it will be “hostile.” I’ve had and seen neighborhood hostile landlord-tenant relationships and they’re not for me. I called once because he ignored me and called me back angry. I withdrew the city inspector call. I prefer open dialogue at all costs. Why am going on here? Because analyzing this example is an sublime exercise for me on how to assess dichotomy of control. These are only words (by Epictetus). I don’t want to say I am living in fear, but I do live with anxiety. I know I cannot control when a storm will come again. And it will. My anxiety, however, is 100% in my control. So now with a perfect interior, in a wonderful city in a great neighborhood at a marketably low price, how do I enjoy each day until the southeast wind and rain storm? The wind analogy has reached from the mouth of Epictetus to my bedroom in NYC in 2023. 😊
Mike, thanks for the example, and very sorry to hear about your situation, though it sounds like you are handling it as well as one can reasonably expect.
For Epictetus the dichotomy is clear and sharp: the only things up to us, that is, for which we are responsible, are our judgments and consequent decisions to act or not to act. Nothing else.
To pick an example from your comment: it is your judgment that it is best, given the circumstances, not to call city inspection. Consequently, you decided not to act on that possibility. How your landlord will take your non-action, whether the situation will improve or not, is not up to you.
In general, whenever we think we are "influencing" a situation what that means is that our part, the influencing one, is the result of judgments and decisions we make. Those, summed to external factors and other people's judgments and decisions, yield the outcome.
Wow! 😳 You clarified and cut that perfectly--in so few lines--like with a knife!🔪 I think I know where I am now with your reply. I will accept my handling of the situation as the most reasonable way to have done so. The future may change that assessment, of course. Amazing how fast our changing thoughts affect our emotion. Thank you. 😊
Glad to help!
I get the intellectual side of choosing ideas and ways of looking at things via free will, but where do natural emotions figure in? There are plenty of good reasons to be angry, sad etc that spur productive action. Is the idea to take action? Not dwell on things out of our control. I can't really imagine being okay with getting my head chopped off!
Jane, it's not a question of being okay with having your head chopped off. It's about accepting that sometimes, unfortunately, that's going to happen, and approaching your fate with equanimity instead of screaming and kicking.
Yes, emotions definitely have a role in Stoicism. They come in two flavors: healthy (love, joy, a sense of justice) and unhealthy (anger, fear, hatred).
As in modern cognitive behavioral therapy, the Stoics think that emotions have a cognitive component. If you are angry and I ask you why you'll be able to give me a reason. The Stoic then will work with that reason by, in a sense, arguing against the often unstated assumptions that underly your anger.
For instance: I'm angry because so-and-so said I'm stupid. Counter: why do you care what so-and-so says? Obviously his intention was to hurt. Why do you give him the power to hurt you? And so forth.
Thank you Professor!
It’s a practice, I aspire to.
My husband is a cognitive behaviorist
First time I dipped my toe into Stoicism
I said, “Wait! This sounds like what Stephen does!
Hm. Emotions in two flavors.
Where does sadness land?
Jane, it definitely is very much like CBT! Sadness, like all emotions, is natural and I would say not problematic if it is temporary and not crippling. If it does get in the way of normal living and functioning then it's unhealthy and it needs to be subjected to Stoic therapy (or CBT).
Well, I'd kinda like to hold on to my delusion about having a non-detachable noggin, but other than that ... .
I hope you'll hold on to it for a long time, my friend!
Me, too. And to my fond memories of what an excellent exec dir Lori Lippmann Brown was for the SCA. Diane and I are big fans.
Such awesome, unique, and so wise teaching and philosophy! Thank you for posting this, Massimo...once again!😊
Morton, glad to hear of your decision. I'll do my best to make it worthwhile!
Going to see it tomorrow night with my wife.
Yes!