Sally and I are having our morning coffee. I am saving this to play for her. Well my dear friend, to quote Yogi Berra, “it’s never over till it’s over”. While there is still much to do I am now better prepared to face it thanks to you, Donald Robertson, David Gerken, and Allan John. I have a dream that some day Stoicism will be taught in elementary schools thanks to all of you.
I’m not convinced. Seems to me it’s not just avoiding pain, but taking pleasure in the simple acts of friendship and sharing. “With a bit of cheese, bread and water are a feast”. Can’t remember a quote about friendship, but that’s a good in Epicurean philosophy, and much more than avoiding pain.
Brian, I respectfully disagree. For the Epicureans the highest good is lack of pain. The small pleasures you refer to are certainly welcome and good, but they are not fundamental. The reason is that lack of pain is a static pleasure, that is, once achieved it doesn't require anything else. Eating, or being in the company of friends, are kinematic pleasures, they disappear as soon as the object (food, friends) goes away, and need to be renewed.
I wish lack of pain was “static” but at 73, especially as active as I am , discomfort is the steadier state. I have a stoic (in the colloquial sense) attitude, because the discomfort of staying vitally alive is a condition of the pleasure of continuing on this side of the turf
Brian, I hear you. But "static" doesn't mean that once achieved it stays that way. It means that by its nature it does not change unless disturbed. Craving for food goes away once we have eaten enough. And then comes back. According to the Epicurus, the person who achieves lack of pain does not crave anything else.
“This post is only for paying subscribers of Figs in Winter. Please consider becoming one.” But I am, still… If the paid-ups get this, Massimo, I shudder at what the poor buggers in the cheap seats must endure!
Steve (again, and grumpier than usual, due to being in hospital with a newly broken hip)
Steve, sorry to hear about the broken hip! I hope you'll recover soon. As for the Substack reminder, I don't know why it shows up for paying subscribers, where it makes no sense. But you certainly have access to the episode.
Maybe the confusion on Epicureanism, and indulging in delights, such as fresh fish, is to have them filleted so you don’t have pain from the bones? 🤔🐟
😆
Jeeze, that’s tough, using your own code to beat up on yourself.
I think there’s a word for that, maso-something? 😅😅
😆
Probably why Epicurus was favorably mentioned by Seneca in his letters, despite the core philosophical differences.
Sally and I are having our morning coffee. I am saving this to play for her. Well my dear friend, to quote Yogi Berra, “it’s never over till it’s over”. While there is still much to do I am now better prepared to face it thanks to you, Donald Robertson, David Gerken, and Allan John. I have a dream that some day Stoicism will be taught in elementary schools thanks to all of you.
Namaste 🙏🏻 Mort
Enjoy your ☕️, Mort!
I’m not convinced. Seems to me it’s not just avoiding pain, but taking pleasure in the simple acts of friendship and sharing. “With a bit of cheese, bread and water are a feast”. Can’t remember a quote about friendship, but that’s a good in Epicurean philosophy, and much more than avoiding pain.
Brian, I respectfully disagree. For the Epicureans the highest good is lack of pain. The small pleasures you refer to are certainly welcome and good, but they are not fundamental. The reason is that lack of pain is a static pleasure, that is, once achieved it doesn't require anything else. Eating, or being in the company of friends, are kinematic pleasures, they disappear as soon as the object (food, friends) goes away, and need to be renewed.
I wish lack of pain was “static” but at 73, especially as active as I am , discomfort is the steadier state. I have a stoic (in the colloquial sense) attitude, because the discomfort of staying vitally alive is a condition of the pleasure of continuing on this side of the turf
Brian, I hear you. But "static" doesn't mean that once achieved it stays that way. It means that by its nature it does not change unless disturbed. Craving for food goes away once we have eaten enough. And then comes back. According to the Epicurus, the person who achieves lack of pain does not crave anything else.
“This post is only for paying subscribers of Figs in Winter. Please consider becoming one.” But I am, still… If the paid-ups get this, Massimo, I shudder at what the poor buggers in the cheap seats must endure!
Steve (again, and grumpier than usual, due to being in hospital with a newly broken hip)
Steve, if it makes you feel better, I receive the same email with the same nudge... 😆
Steve, sorry to hear about the broken hip! I hope you'll recover soon. As for the Substack reminder, I don't know why it shows up for paying subscribers, where it makes no sense. But you certainly have access to the episode.