This post makes me think of a passage in Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations where he poetically reminds us:
Does what’s happened keep you from acting with justice, generosity, self-control, sanity, prudence, honesty, humility, straightforwardness, and all the other qualities that allow a person’s nature to fulfill itself?
It took me a long time to realize that even when faced by very complex ‘misfortunes’, well, my attitude towards these unexpected challenges reveals a loooooot of my character.
Also, as Epictetus suggests:
God gives you attributes, like magnanimity, courage, and endurance, to enable you to bear whatever happens. These are given free of all restraint, compulsion, or hindrance; He has put the whole matter under your control without reserving even for Himself any power to prevent or hinder.
Those words, “free of all restraint … the whole matter under your control” send shivers down my spine all the time! And, well, it’s true! What a discovery it was for me! It took me quite a while to realize that it’s all in my hands in the end. I managed to learn that as long as my first impressions/reactions over whatever “misfortune” life throws at me are under control, then I can use my best strategies to overcome what is in front of me.
Coming from someone (myself) who would promptly react to weird and unfair behaviors from people, I think that Stoicism taught me what may indeed be a fruitful management of such occurrences, and, more importantly, how I was quite often the enabler in adding more negativity by reacting to rage and anger with more rage and anger.
Active (and rational) endurance some might call it …
OK, understood about the benefits of hardships (when looked at from the Stoic perspective). But here's the thing. Does this mean we should choose the hard way to do something when there's an easier way to do it? Should we prefer to be sick rather than healthy because it helps us build character? It sounds so counter-intuitive. We work all our lives so that we can benefit from comfort and ease. Yet it sounds like the Stoic will say we should always choose the harder option if we know what's good for us or, (gasp) even HOPE that things are difficult for us! Don't get me wrong, I understand the benefits of this exercise - and God knows I can use them! But I do find it to be counter-intuitive.
Jim, definitely not. Seneca, for instance, explicitly says in one of his letters to Lucilius that he’s no fool: he does NOT prefer hardship, sickness, poverty, and so forth. He says that he *practices* hardship and poverty, in a mild and controlled manner. As for sickness, the universe gives us enough practice as it is…
That said, there is a sense in which if life goes too smoothly because one is exceptionally lucky then one has not be tested, and they will never know their true value.
I guess I never noticed Seneca's specific take on this, and I must say I'm pleased to see it. And I must say I too prefer not to be a fool! That said, experiencing hardships from a Stoic perspective is certainly practical.
Jim, I found the specific passage I was thinking of, in Letter 67:
“I should prefer to be free from torture; but if the time comes when it must be endured, I shall desire that I may conduct myself therein with bravery, honour, and courage. Of course I prefer that war should not occur; but if war does occur, I shall desire that I may nobly
endure the wounds, the starvation, and all that the exigency of war brings. Nor am I so mad as to crave illness; but if I must suffer illness, I shall desire that I may do nothing which shows lack of restraint, and nothing that is unmanly. The conclusion is, not that hardships are desirable, but that virtue is desirable, which enables us patiently to endure hardships.”
Sound advice, but one I worry some people may have taken too far and deliberately add unnecessary hardships for the sake of growth.
Yes there are some things like exercise, where it's fine to deliberately self-inflict some sort of pain, but then you have some who want to start/engage in wars, not out of any unfortunate necessity or misguided just purpose, but for developing whatever character through the most extreme hardships available. If I was a martial artist and I unfortunately can't find any worthy opponent/s, I'm not going to go to "that" part of town just to get mugged and force myself into self-defense as a substitute.
This has definitely been an important point for me - looking at things I don’t want to do or experience as opportunities for character growth. If I can get through this and develop good mental habits in terms of how I respond to things, and if I can persist in this over time, I will naturally be better and happier!
Actually, that’s a good question! The commitment is lifetime, just as it would be if you signed up for a gym. But I’ve personally seen significant improvements after a few weeks of practice, and considerable ones within the first year.
I was reading, this morning, about 'anti-fragility' - the concept, not just of preventing negative experiences from affecting you negatively, but also allowing them to strengthen you
This brings to mind my experience in the US Navy aboard ship. There were necessary hardships, being in the nature of shipboard life. I adapted to them. Where Stoicism would have helped me forty years ago was in what I felt was “unnecessary hardships”. This was my fault, resentment towards people who were rude in my opinion. Those who constantly complained about life aboard ship, people who were loud, etc. I’m an introvert who has always been introspective, so my inability to think deeply felt like a violation, and used to induce panic because I over identified myself with my thoughts.
My practicing Stoicism has been a blessing to me in my attitudes towards other people. I am grateful for the peace of mind I have found.
Bob, absolutely, Stoicism is helpful particularly with what you call unnecessary hardships, the ones that is more difficult to make sense of. Every time I hear someone blasting their music in the NYC subway, instead of plugging in his earbuds, I think, “really?” But the answer is, yeah, really.
This post makes me think of a passage in Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations where he poetically reminds us:
Does what’s happened keep you from acting with justice, generosity, self-control, sanity, prudence, honesty, humility, straightforwardness, and all the other qualities that allow a person’s nature to fulfill itself?
It took me a long time to realize that even when faced by very complex ‘misfortunes’, well, my attitude towards these unexpected challenges reveals a loooooot of my character.
Also, as Epictetus suggests:
God gives you attributes, like magnanimity, courage, and endurance, to enable you to bear whatever happens. These are given free of all restraint, compulsion, or hindrance; He has put the whole matter under your control without reserving even for Himself any power to prevent or hinder.
Those words, “free of all restraint … the whole matter under your control” send shivers down my spine all the time! And, well, it’s true! What a discovery it was for me! It took me quite a while to realize that it’s all in my hands in the end. I managed to learn that as long as my first impressions/reactions over whatever “misfortune” life throws at me are under control, then I can use my best strategies to overcome what is in front of me.
Coming from someone (myself) who would promptly react to weird and unfair behaviors from people, I think that Stoicism taught me what may indeed be a fruitful management of such occurrences, and, more importantly, how I was quite often the enabler in adding more negativity by reacting to rage and anger with more rage and anger.
Active (and rational) endurance some might call it …
As always, thank you Stoicism!
Alessandro, I hear you. Have been going through a very similar process myself.
OK, understood about the benefits of hardships (when looked at from the Stoic perspective). But here's the thing. Does this mean we should choose the hard way to do something when there's an easier way to do it? Should we prefer to be sick rather than healthy because it helps us build character? It sounds so counter-intuitive. We work all our lives so that we can benefit from comfort and ease. Yet it sounds like the Stoic will say we should always choose the harder option if we know what's good for us or, (gasp) even HOPE that things are difficult for us! Don't get me wrong, I understand the benefits of this exercise - and God knows I can use them! But I do find it to be counter-intuitive.
Jim, definitely not. Seneca, for instance, explicitly says in one of his letters to Lucilius that he’s no fool: he does NOT prefer hardship, sickness, poverty, and so forth. He says that he *practices* hardship and poverty, in a mild and controlled manner. As for sickness, the universe gives us enough practice as it is…
That said, there is a sense in which if life goes too smoothly because one is exceptionally lucky then one has not be tested, and they will never know their true value.
I guess I never noticed Seneca's specific take on this, and I must say I'm pleased to see it. And I must say I too prefer not to be a fool! That said, experiencing hardships from a Stoic perspective is certainly practical.
Jim, I found the specific passage I was thinking of, in Letter 67:
“I should prefer to be free from torture; but if the time comes when it must be endured, I shall desire that I may conduct myself therein with bravery, honour, and courage. Of course I prefer that war should not occur; but if war does occur, I shall desire that I may nobly
endure the wounds, the starvation, and all that the exigency of war brings. Nor am I so mad as to crave illness; but if I must suffer illness, I shall desire that I may do nothing which shows lack of restraint, and nothing that is unmanly. The conclusion is, not that hardships are desirable, but that virtue is desirable, which enables us patiently to endure hardships.”
Love it! Much obliged!
Sound advice, but one I worry some people may have taken too far and deliberately add unnecessary hardships for the sake of growth.
Yes there are some things like exercise, where it's fine to deliberately self-inflict some sort of pain, but then you have some who want to start/engage in wars, not out of any unfortunate necessity or misguided just purpose, but for developing whatever character through the most extreme hardships available. If I was a martial artist and I unfortunately can't find any worthy opponent/s, I'm not going to go to "that" part of town just to get mugged and force myself into self-defense as a substitute.
Fortunately, what "some people" do is not up to you (Week 1+Week 2), so no need to concern yourself about it!
Such people would fail to properly exercise the cardinal virtues of practical wisdom and temperance…
This has definitely been an important point for me - looking at things I don’t want to do or experience as opportunities for character growth. If I can get through this and develop good mental habits in terms of how I respond to things, and if I can persist in this over time, I will naturally be better and happier!
So--how long do I have to work out in this "gym" before I'll look those wrestlers? Nice to have something to look forward to . . . .
Actually, that’s a good question! The commitment is lifetime, just as it would be if you signed up for a gym. But I’ve personally seen significant improvements after a few weeks of practice, and considerable ones within the first year.
I was reading, this morning, about 'anti-fragility' - the concept, not just of preventing negative experiences from affecting you negatively, but also allowing them to strengthen you
Sibbs, yes, I don’t know whether Taleb got it from Stoicism, but the idea is very similar.
This brings to mind my experience in the US Navy aboard ship. There were necessary hardships, being in the nature of shipboard life. I adapted to them. Where Stoicism would have helped me forty years ago was in what I felt was “unnecessary hardships”. This was my fault, resentment towards people who were rude in my opinion. Those who constantly complained about life aboard ship, people who were loud, etc. I’m an introvert who has always been introspective, so my inability to think deeply felt like a violation, and used to induce panic because I over identified myself with my thoughts.
My practicing Stoicism has been a blessing to me in my attitudes towards other people. I am grateful for the peace of mind I have found.
Bob, absolutely, Stoicism is helpful particularly with what you call unnecessary hardships, the ones that is more difficult to make sense of. Every time I hear someone blasting their music in the NYC subway, instead of plugging in his earbuds, I think, “really?” But the answer is, yeah, really.